Settle a Debate between My Friend and I

Colorado peak questions, condition requests and other info.
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What qualifies as summiting a 14er

ONLY Hiking up a Trail
35
20%
Hiking Up a Trail or Highway but NOT Biking
21
12%
Hiking or Biking up a Trail but not a highway
8
5%
Hiking or Biking up a Trail or Highway
88
50%
Driving Counts as Summitting
25
14%
 
Total votes: 177
timisimaginary
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Re: Settle a Debate between My Friend and I

Post by timisimaginary »

justiner wrote: Mon Jun 27, 2022 12:28 pm
timisimaginary wrote: Thu Jun 23, 2022 1:41 pm "climbed" - reached the summit by foot only
Rarely does "climbing" describe an activity in the mountaineering sense where one does not use their upper body/hands to gain upward progress.

"Climbing":

arms.jpg
yeah, i was using "by foot" more metaphorically, since saying "by human body parts only" sounded kinda awkward.
though, depending on one's imagination, it could lead to some interesting visuals.
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DeanBrickhouse
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Re: Settle a Debate between My Friend and I

Post by DeanBrickhouse »

On the one hand the summit was conquered, albeit with the help of a bicycle. Perhaps it is not considered as difficult as climbing a peak without a bike, but I am sure that there were times when the weight of the bike made the route much more difficult compared to climbing on foot. It reminds me of the story of the TV series Friends and I wrote about it on a resource https://samplius.com/free-essay-example ... -a-tv-show with free essay samples for students. It's a useful resource for improving your knowledge in a short amount of time.
Last edited by DeanBrickhouse on Sat Aug 13, 2022 8:08 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Mark Curtis
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Re: Settle a Debate between My Friend and I

Post by Mark Curtis »

"Been to the summit" of Evans several times. Hiking/climbing, on bike, and in vehicle. I see validity in quite a few viewpoints people have posted. Probably the most profound/encompassing answer was the first one by Captain Suburbia..."it's your list, count them how you want".

I think there is plenty of subjectivity in my assessment (at least as far as difficulty for the individual in the sense of "legitimacy").....based on a host of variables. First, on foot:

I hiked to the summit of Evans the first time from Echo Lake....when in my late 20's. Second time from Guanella Pass via The Sawtooth....in my late 30's. Third time from Summit Lake and doing the Spalding/Evans loop...in my late 40's. So you have not only the distances, terrain, and starting elevation as variables, but also the age factor. It was also my first climb of the season for the Spalding Evans loop. Not suggesting older age should play a role allowing a lower general standard of what constitutes a climb. Rather, I am saying....alluding to the aforementioned Captain Suburbia take....the climb from Summit Lake/Mt. Spalding seemed "harder" (all things considered)...yet quite fun. So in spite of other generally accepted standards for what constitutes a climb of a peak, I still called it one. And....the older you get the less you concern yourself with how others might perceive it otherwise. In fact, it's not something you would even mention as being a debate.....because you feel less compelled to defend yourself.

The other variable for me is conditioning at the time...not just from year to year, but sometimes from week to week! While I was almost 10 years older when climbing Evans from Guanella, I was actually in better shape at that time (having done a parade of 14ers earlier in the summer)....so even with the added climb of Bierstadt and traverse of The Sawtooth, it seemed easier than climbing it from Echo Lake. Of course, the lower elevation and total distance on Chicago Lakes route offsets the extra climbing from Guanella to a large extent. And by difficulty I mean taxing on the body, not technically.....or the Sawtooth route would of course be harder.

On bike:

The variables were....did it in my late 50's. Just from Echo Lake, not from Idaho Springs (again, me no care if someone thinks that is not legit...it FELT legit!). But unlike most more frequently saner riders, I rode up on a 30 lb mountain bike. It's a 29er, so rolls well....but still a far cry from the road bikes I saw going up (the ones that passed me!). The tradeoff was coming down, as the wider tires and shocks definitely absorb much more of those crazy ass bumps around Summit Lake.

I trained by riding up various passes, primarily for altitude acclimation. Trail Ridge, Fall River Road, Snowy Range Road. But also, and much more dificult because of the rocky terrain...Wheeler Lake from Highway 9 (last half mile is insane), Rollins Pass, and Mosquito Pass. But the road that likely prepared me best was not at really high altitude. It was the west side of Rist Canyon Road west of Fort Collins. Only 8,000 feet at its highest point, but it's a 12% grade with no switchbacks. And at my age, the first time I tried the ascent....I though my heart was going to explode. But I did it several times during that spring and summer, and it made all the difference.

So was riding to the summit easier than by foot? Yes, and no. My age being a factor for sure....but more than that....the weight of the bike! And then via the road the entire way, it's 14 miles (and add another 10 to that if going from Idaho Springs). So the last mile or so was especially grueling, and I was determined to ride with ass on seat the entire time. No cranking! But still....yes, it's "easier" because it's less impact on your joints and feet....and the added weight is offset by the low gearing (to whatever extent). If not for granny gear, there's NO WAY I could have made it up. If you could make it up that road on a (conventional) single speed bike, then you are a FREAK. That would be WAY more difficult than climbing....if it was even possible. But then, yes....WAY easier coming down of course :YY !

So my assessment concludes with that bike ascent being probably even more difficult for me. It took extra cardio training to accomplish at my age.....and it was more of a mental challenge those last few miles. So those two factors made it even more satisfying than the traditional mode ascent. I call it a climb, but not in the same sense. So I don't have a problem with how people want to classify either way.

Finally, I would say...if you have hiked to the summit----but haven't ridden a bike up it (from at least as far away as Echo Lake)----you could definitely have a take on the philosophical debate here, but may want to refrain from trying to project the actual difference in difficulty. :-k
Last edited by Mark Curtis on Thu Aug 11, 2022 6:35 am, edited 1 time in total.
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bdloftin77
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Re: Settle a Debate between My Friend and I

Post by bdloftin77 »

Mark Curtis wrote: Wed Aug 10, 2022 3:48 pm But the road that likely prepared me best was not at really high altitude. It was the west side of Rist Canyon Road west of Fort Collins. Only 8,000 feet at its highest point, but it's a 12% grade with no switchbacks. And at my age, the first time I tried the ascent....I though my heart was going to explode. But I did it several times during that spring and summer, and it made all the difference.
I did that stretch quite a few times when I lived in Fort Collins. Definitely really steep! And fun to descend. :-D I think some people have done some longboarding speed records there.
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Mark Curtis
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Re: Settle a Debate between My Friend and I

Post by Mark Curtis »

bdloftin77 wrote: Wed Aug 10, 2022 4:43 pm
Mark Curtis wrote: Wed Aug 10, 2022 3:48 pm But the road that likely prepared me best was not at really high altitude. It was the west side of Rist Canyon Road west of Fort Collins. Only 8,000 feet at its highest point, but it's a 12% grade with no switchbacks. And at my age, the first time I tried the ascent....I though my heart was going to explode. But I did it several times during that spring and summer, and it made all the difference.
I think some people have done some longboarding speed records there.
I don't doubt that! There's some slight bends in the road, but generally straight down! Nothing to slow you down except your own tolerances/faith in your equipment....or a strong headwind.
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JChitwood
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Re: Settle a Debate between My Friend and I

Post by JChitwood »

Above_Treeline wrote: Wed Jun 22, 2022 3:17 pm I was wondering if Evans from summit lake counted. Seems kind of close.
Evans from Summit Lake is an underrated route. I did it a few weeks ago with some friends visiting from the Midwest and it was tougher than I anticipated. Steep ascent of Spalding then miles of up and down sidehilling over to Evans then back over Spalding on the return. Still can’t believe Spalding isn’t ranked sure felt like 300’ to me. Their vaunted iWatches had the total vert for the hike at 2,630’. Not saying it deserves a bunch of Roach Points, but I sure counted it as a summit.
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JChitwood
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Re: Settle a Debate between My Friend and I

Post by JChitwood »

For his upcoming 60th birthday a few years back, a climbing partner cycled up Pikes from Manitou and Evans from Idaho Springs on consecutive days. Several years ago he mountain biked up Antero to where the trail starts and walked the last few hundred vertical feet to the summit and I absolutely count all three. I think what he did was way harder than walking up. Of course in the snooty attitude of uber-fit Durangoans, he could care less about counting anything. I secretly admire that.
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Re: Settle a Debate between My Friend and I

Post by lauradaughtry »

My "rule" is simple: any human-powered (no cars or trains) way up and down a 14er counts as a summit.
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JohnnyLeadville
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Re: Settle a Debate between My Friend and I

Post by JohnnyLeadville »

Summiting is a hiking term. This reminds me of comedians who say they are "playing" this weekend.
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dubsho3000
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Re: Settle a Debate between My Friend and I

Post by dubsho3000 »

AnnaG22 wrote: Wed Jun 22, 2022 3:47 pm A lot of this comes down to semantics and whether a person really cares. If we're being literal about the verb "climb," very few people ever "climb" 14ers. If it's a question of whether they were physically in a spot at a given point in time, any means of getting there is valid, because they were there.
This has become a pet peeve of mine over the years, how people in the mountaineering community have redefined the word climb. Allow me to disagree. Here is the first definition from a google search:

climb

verb
1.
go or come up (a slope, incline, or staircase), especially by using the feet and sometimes the hands; ascend.
"we began to climb the hill"

I feel like rock climbers have convinced us all that the word "climb" means something different than it actually does. Toddlers climb stairs; cars climb hills; yuppees climb the corporate ladder. Hikers climb 14ers by hiking on trails. Any time you summit a 14er, you've climbed!

Climb on
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greenonion
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Re: Settle a Debate between My Friend and I

Post by greenonion »

dubsho3000 wrote: Sat Aug 13, 2022 1:43 am
AnnaG22 wrote: Wed Jun 22, 2022 3:47 pm A lot of this comes down to semantics and whether a person really cares. If we're being literal about the verb "climb," very few people ever "climb" 14ers. If it's a question of whether they were physically in a spot at a given point in time, any means of getting there is valid, because they were there.
This has become a pet peeve of mine over the years, how people in the mountaineering community have redefined the word climb. Allow me to disagree. Here is the first definition from a google search:

climb

verb
1.
go or come up (a slope, incline, or staircase), especially by using the feet and sometimes the hands; ascend.
"we began to climb the hill"

I feel like rock climbers have convinced us all that the word "climb" means something different than it actually does. Toddlers climb stairs; cars climb hills; yuppees climb the corporate ladder. Hikers climb 14ers by hiking on trails. Any time you summit a 14er, you've climbed!

Climb on
Rock on. +1
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jrbren_vt
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Re: Settle a Debate between My Friend and I

Post by jrbren_vt »

Is there a statute of limitations on climbs ? I did my first 14er (Elbert) over 30 years ago.
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